My Hidden Past: Inside a Cult | June Kato-Rider

This episode is not about content creation, making money, or even really about entrepreneurship. It’s about me and past, born and raised in a cult. 

If you’re here for stories, tips and tricks on content marketing, then I’ll save you the time and tell you to skip.

If you’re interested in my past, where I came from, and why I do a lot of what I do, then go ahead and listen to the most raw uncut podcast I’ve recorded to date. 

What it took was my sister, June, to ask me the questions nobody else could. 

What the fuck was our childhood about?

She’s a professional Japanese-English interpreter, and probably the best there is, working with world leaders and presidents at the UN and other global business leaders. But we have a shared history being raised in a cult that affected everything about us today.

The impact on our lives is huge and it takes a level of incredible resilience for anyone to turn something like that around and build a life, a family, and a successful career despite having a dark past.

Click play to enter the rabbit hole.

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https://www.instagram.com/junekatorider/

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https://www.instagram.com/kenokazaki/
https://www.youtube.com/c/KenOkazaki
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-content-capitalists-with-ken-okazaki/id1634328251
https://open.spotify.com/show/09IzKghscecbI7jPDVBJTw

Content Capitalists YouTube 

Transcript

Ken Okazaki: The Content Capitalist Podcast is all about content creation and entrepreneurship and making money with social media and video. Now, this one is different. So if you're here looking for the regular content where I interview people making a million dollars or more with content, and you're not interested in other stuff just about me, then you might want to skip this one.

But if you are interested in learning more about me and my past, we go You know, way off the reservation, you may say here. I'm talking to my sister and this conversation led to my life growing up being born in a cult. I was raised in a cult and there was a lot of experiences we had that I'm still unpacking.

So when I was reviewing this podcast, I wanted to make sure that I made it really clear that this is different. And there probably won't be so many of these, but I felt it was worth it to put it out for those who are interested in finding out just a bit more about me and what makes me tick. And really, where did I really come from?

So if that's you keep listening, if it's not, you feel free to skip this and go on to the regular content where we talk all things, content creation and making money. 

The 

June Kato: It was so scary for me for so long to just talk about where I came from. But the truth is, I was born into a religious group or a religious cult that our parents joined when they were very, very young. 

Ken Okazaki: Jun Kato is a world class interpreter, recognized for her ability to connect Japanese audiences with speakers like Tony Robbins and Simon Cowell.

Steve Wozniak, in addition to interpreting for heads of state at the UN, making her a top professional in the industry. 

June Kato: So the environment that I lived in was like a commune. I didn't have access to pop culture or anything until really I was around 10 years old, when for the first time ever I started going to Japanese school.

Ken Okazaki: We were born in the same cult, and I didn't realize it was a cult until the internet was invented. 

June Kato: It's time for all of you to take a risk and share something about yourself. And it's a safe place, but not a place to play safe. What would be the worst thing that would happen if you were to show up authentically every day for your family, for your clients, your employees?

And if it's not death, then you're going to be okay. 

Ken Okazaki: The

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Content Capitalist podcast. We're going off the regular format that I do where I usually like bring an expert and we ask them to teach us a thing or two about social media and marketing and content creation. Today we've got someone real special. She's my sister, June Kato, and obviously we've known each other for a long time.

I think so. And I was, yeah, recently she was over at my house and we were talking about stuff and I just realized, you know what? I know so little about what's been going on in your life, except that you're pretty much the world's best Japanese English interpreter in live settings. Like, actually think that we could probably pull up some statistics and, like, you'd rank up there as probably the best as far as how that goes.

Uh, I want to talk to you a bit about, you know, explain what you've been doing, what you've been up to, and, uh, but I want to open this up to questions. By first, uh, it's, it's weird. I have to go to social media to research what my sister does. That's how bad it's gotten. But I'm on LinkedIn looking up June Kato, that's J U N E space K A T O.

First picture is her on stage with Randy Zuckerberg in front of, I don't know, it looks like three, four, maybe 5, 000 people. And then her, you know, side by side with Steve Wozniak, uh, taking care of making sure that all audience in Japan understands exactly what he's saying. And not only that, the nuances, uh, we've got Tony Robbins.

We've got Ricardo. I can't pronounce his last name. Tixeria? Tixera? 

June Kato: Tixera. I think it's Mexican. Tixera. 

Ken Okazaki: Okay. 

June Kato: Yeah. Okay. And then of 

Ken Okazaki: course, yeah. Pitbull, Jeff Walker, uh, Mary Buffett. The list goes on and on there's Robertilesaki, and uh, she gets to have these experiences working, and very intimately understanding, not just what the words are saying, but the intention and the energy.

There's also going to be like quirks and things people say that have a deeper meaning based on, you know, the context of who they are. And that's a lot. So, that's who she is. World class interpreter, uh, world class translator, world class connector of people. world class people.

So, June, welcome to the show. That was a long intro, dammit. 

June Kato: That was a really long introduction, but thank you. It was, um, it was like kind of a nice, uh, trip down memory lane because, yeah, I've been in the interpreting world for, I think this is going to be my 13th year. and through it, I've just been able to have so many, so many amazing experiences with all of those, like, world class, um, people that you just mentioned, and, like, so many more that I haven't even had time to update my LinkedIn in, I think, like, five years, so that's kind of old information.

but, yeah, um, It's been, it's been amazing to, to be able to walk into those rooms and know that these really amazing people kind of just trust you with their message and their voice. and so it's, it's a huge responsibility. It's a very big undertaking and something that I actually really, really enjoy because there's an aspect to interpretation that I actually feel kind of like mind reading or not just mind reading because you can't just interpret the words that people are saying because a lot of times, Even with really world famous speakers, they say something, but what they're trying to get across or the meaning or the feeling is very different.

And so being able to pick up that feeling and then finding the right words for it is, is, it's a real art. Anyways, thanks for the introduction. I'm super happy to be here. 

Ken Okazaki: I think that Japanese and English interpretation is probably one of the toughest. ones because of the way sentences are structured.

like literally the, first word in the sentence in Japanese is going to be the last sentence of the English, the last word of the English sentence. So you can't start until it's like, Like it's the structure has to change in your head the whole time. So in your brain, you're constantly having to like, do this, this, you know, I don't know, what do we call it?

Uh, what's that game again, where you spin the thing and there's, there's colors on the floor. Twister? Twister. It's like twister in your brain. Yes. Twister. That's what I imagined is going on in your brain. 

June Kato: I don't know if it's twister or exactly. it's a weird thing because like, when it comes to interpreting for a specific speaker, if I have any time to prepare in advance, then I will try to learn as much of what they've taught.

I'll read their books, I'll watch whatever videos they have out on YouTube to understand their feeling, um, their content, the cadence, um, but then, The moment I get on stage or if I'm right next to them, then a lot of times I have to throw away everything that I've learned and just empty out my brain and become like a completely empty and clear channel so I can really be present in the moment because everything that they've done in the past doesn't necessarily represent who they are.

When they're right in front of you. So, one thing that I've noticed that really separates amazing interpreters from those who maybe aren't as good, but they're technically amazing, is whether or not you can show up and be present and not rely on everything that you've learned in the past and just know that it's going to be there for you if you need it versus the people who are just stuck in their head and are interpreting from knowledge as opposed to, I don't know, trust, experience, and intuition.

It's, it's, uh, it's an interesting thing. 

Ken Okazaki: The fact that it's simultaneous interpretation, Like, think we got to paint the picture here because a lot of people have probably been to conferences where the speaker says something, then pauses, then someone else translates and what you're doing is so different because the speaker goes on and on and on.

And someone like Tony Robbins, and I've been to his events, he, he does like what, like, I think 230 words per minute is his regular pace and 

June Kato: really, I didn't know that. 

Ken Okazaki: Yeah, no. Yeah. That's how fast he speaks. Right. So you are, as you're listening. You're doing some kind of like, you know, supercomputer stuff in your brain and your mouth is moving in Japanese while still trying to absorb the next thing that's coming out.

It's like this, this assembly line going on, right? And it is so difficult to do something like, or especially like Tony Robbins, where, what, how many hours are his events when he did those? 

June Kato: Um, so when he was doing live in person events pre COVID, they could go anywhere from 12 to 15 to, I think the longest one was like 18 hours straight.

Uh, now that they're online, they're about 12 hours or so. So it's still pretty long 

Ken Okazaki: and he's also getting a little bit older, so that's, 

June Kato: he's getting slower. I don't, don't, don't tell him I said that,

but he's not, Tony, if you're listening, 

Ken Okazaki: then it's a compliment. It's a compliment. 

June Kato: It would be, it would be. Yes. But, um, because he's, he's not speaking as fast, he's able to, I feel like, focus in on what he's saying and place more importance onto each individual word, as opposed to just doing, um, what we call machine gun talk.

Ken Okazaki: I think we have to address the elephant in the room here. We were both born in Japan. We're both full Japanese, Japanese father and mother. we grew up to some degree in Japan. Yeah, we're talking like we're Americans. And what's with that? I'll give my version, but I want to hear yours.

Okay. So I never went to public school. I know Public Japanese School, I think you did, because our parents were a little smarter when you were born than they were when I was born. Uh, they threw us into like, uh, international school that was only speaking English. So, all my vocabulary and everything, I picked that up in English.

But, I remember realizing how weird my accent was. Like, it was so muddled. And it was when I was like, yeah. In English 

June Kato: or Japanese? 

Ken Okazaki: English. Well, Japanese is even weirder, but the English, because I started listening to recordings of my voice and I was like, that's messed up. 

June Kato: And then I went, 

Ken Okazaki: no, but at the time it was very different than it is now.

Uh, and when I was like 21, 22 is no, wait, let me think. What was that? No, it was before that. Uh, Skype was a thing and I went and found and hired an accent ¥coach. to teach me to speak in the way I speak now. I did. And I, I was keeping it, it was like my, I didn't tell anybody. So I had a really weird accent before it was very muddled.

And I said a lot of words in weird ways and I didn't realize it was like people are scratching their heads all the time. And uh, so that was like six months of like training on, you know, clearing up my accent. But. You've also got a very clear accent. How'd you do that? 

June Kato: Um, well, I didn't really do it. I was what I call now.

Okay, so this is actually a journey in my life that I'm taking as well, which is showing up authentically as myself and just living what my story is and knowing that it's actually my strength and not my weakness, although it was so scary for me for so long to just talk about where I came from. So what I would tell people is that I'm a TCK or a third culture kid.

which, you know, pretty much just means that you're growing up in a culture, yeah, yeah, we are, but I didn't know about that word until like a couple of years ago, and I was like, oh, that's perfect, I'll go with that, um, but the truth is, is that I was born into a religious group or religious cult that our, my, our parents joined when they were very, very young, it was a hippie movement, uh, you know, the states, they were all against the war, anyway, so there's, there's history, but, um, I was born into that environment, and it was, it originated in the States and then it came to Japan, and so the environment that I lived in was like a commune, um, everybody spoke English, I didn't have access to pop culture or to Japanese or anything until really I was around 10 years old when the first, for the first time ever I started going to Japanese school, and stuck out like a sore thumb and, and I was, um, Made fun of for not knowing anything.

I couldn't even speak Japanese. I had a terrible terrible like an anxious habit of biting my nails like crazy. I would like bite them all the way down until they bled. And then, you know, after you have no more nail left, you like go for the skin too. It was horrible. Um, but that's where, I mean, you know, we, we grow through.

Like I'd already moved 

Ken Okazaki: away. I didn't know any of this stuff about the school, but yes, you know what, thank you for doing that because I've always said international school and technically it was a school. It was also run by a cult. Yes. You know, we we're born in the same cult and I didn't realize it was a cult until the internet was invented.

And, and then around 15, 16, I was just like, what? What? This is a thing. Now I have never talked about this publicly on social media yet. So the fact that you're bringing this up is actually, is actually a little bit. uncomfortable for me, which is a good thing. 

June Kato: And I'm glad you 

Ken Okazaki: brought it up. 

June Kato: Position. No, this 

Ken Okazaki: is good.

I need to get out of my comfort zone because it's so easy for me to say international school. If I say I was born in a cult and I, and I went to a school that was run by the cult, then it's like so many more questions. now everybody's like, 

June Kato: I'm trying to 

Ken Okazaki: run a business here now, people want to know about my cult life, you know.

June Kato: Yeah, it's a difficult thing to, to, to, to parse between. 

Ken Okazaki: Which by the way, just to clear things up, I, I'm not affiliated with them all anymore. As soon as I figured stuff out, then I wanted to leave as soon as I could. Took a little while to, you know, understand what it actually means to live. outside of the system of occult.

June Kato: Yes, but not also fully within the societal system of anything else. So even now, I really very much feel like we are still third culture kids. And, and weirdly, for the longest time, I, I shamed myself because, you know, as a kid, you feel like you should have known better, like it was your responsibility. I mean, I'll just speak for myself.

I, you know, I felt like, Oh, I should have known better. I should have known sooner. I should have been smarter. But, When you're born into that little microcosm you have and we're cut off from all information, you know, there was there was no point. I mean, there was no way that we could possibly have known.

And so it's been like a really long journey of just accepting who I am and forgiving myself. And just also sometimes speaking to somebody who's in my same age and they'll ask me, Oh, do you know about this music group or this, you know, anime? And I'll just be like, I'm sorry. I just don't, I have a huge blank.

It's weird, but it also has become my, my strength as well. And I would. for so many years. Weirdly, I'm going to talk about our dad now. And this is something that I've been like working so fucking hard to get over. Sorry, no cursing on this. 

Ken Okazaki: We're good. I have it. I have the little E on all of our episodes.

So we're good. 

June Kato: Okay, great. Um, so we would go visit our grandparents. And because of the, the group that we were, um, that we were brought up in, and the very weird family structure that we had. Every time before we'd go visit our grandma, our grandparents, he would always tell me, don't tell grandma about the rest of our family.

Don't tell her about what goes on. And so from a very young age, I've had this, this very powerful influence from, you know, one of the bigger authorities in my life, which was, you know, our dad. Just pretty much saying don't talk about your real life. Don't talk about who you really are. Don't talk about what's true for you.

And so I have been working to get over that and I always have to catch myself now, especially in professional settings when people are like, wow, you're so different. Did you grow up in the States? And I'm like, no, I grew up in Japan. And I also really fall back on that. Oh, I went to an international school.

Uh, too, but like with the internet these days, which is 

Ken Okazaki: exactly what I did earlier, , like five minutes ago. . 

June Kato: Yeah. But like, I realize it's, impossible. The internet, you can find anything. I could say, oh, it was a school somewhere here, and they could look it up. They're like, sorry, that doesn't exist.

And so I was just like. In this day and age where we are all so interconnected, there's no hiding. And I really feel like in this world, in business, in your personal life, in your romantic life, everything, if you're not able to just accept who you are and show up authentically, then at some point you are just going to, you're literally, you know, twisting the noose or the rope that it will be your noose and they're going to find out.

It's like, it's like the ultimate, uh, Santa Claus betrayal. Um, where, you know, you tell your kids that Santa Claus exists and then. Anyways, um, yeah, 

Ken Okazaki: you know, now that you say all this, like, I've always had it in my mind that I wanted to come out about this at some point, but it just never felt important enough.

And then I've always made it a rule that I'm not going to lie. Comfy on social media and stuff, but I'll definitely admit stuff that I'm not comfortable talking about, and I think that's fine too, but maybe there's a time where this stuff needs to get talked about, like, you know, why the fuck do I have all these include Well, okay.

I recently started seeing a therapist like a few months ago And then I started studying Carl Young and all his work as a result. Uh, she recommended all this stuff and I'm starting to see connections between how I think and behave. And like the fact that I'm an entrepreneur even is probably just a result of me not seeing a way to fit in to society in any other way than to create my own.

Microsociety called my company. Yeah, literally that's, I mean, it's, it's a very plausible explanation. Um, but yes, definitely, you know, dad, not just dad, but like people like the adults around hell had the attitude, like, you know, like, don't say this, don't say that, you know, because it was a very secretive cult.

So,That's affected me too, just like, just like it affected you. 

June Kato: Yeah. And I think we've found different ways to, to maybe for a long time, I would call it coping and then accepting and then transmuting or transforming it into an actual, factual strength. Because what I have found through my experiences of actually telling people, the more honest I am about where I, where I come from more so than not, I don't think I've ever once had somebody shun me for it or shame me for it or look down on me in any way.

Actually, a lot of times it's really, um, been something that they, I don't know, for me, I had the longest time, just like having any respect for the fact that I got out of the cult, which of course it wasn't just on my own. I was still so young at the time. I was still 10 years old. So a lot of that came from, uh, dad leaving.

Uh, because he was done. And, but then just the, the journey. And he just left 

Ken Okazaki: us. He was like, just like, bye guys. I'm leaving. It's a, this is a bad idea to be in a cult. You guys can stay like what? Like he never encouraged any of us to leave as far as I know. 

June Kato: Well, I think so. We were in very different, uh, different positions.

I feel like, uh, you know, obviously within the cult, there are all these different eras and we don't necessarily have to go into all of it, but your experience as, um, However, so many years older, I think you're six years older than me and mine, uh, was very different both with, uh, our dad and, um, in the cult as well, but yeah, um, I forgot what I was saying, but pretty much, yeah, whenever I talk to anybody about it, they're more often than not just amazed and, They are so, um, affirming of the resilience that it takes to actually come out of something like that and not become like a derelict of society.

Um, some kind of like, I don't know, meth addict or something, or like a shoplifter. I don't know. Um, so that's what I've been able to find through my experience of just coming out little bit by little bit. And also I have seen how hiding this story. of our past has tortured our dad as well and how many times he's had to make up so many different stories for all of the different amazing people he needed to impress.

I just remember when I used to work with him, every time I'd walk into a room with somebody and they'd come and say like, Oh, June, I've heard so much about you. I would have like this instant panic attack. I was like, Oh, what story did you hear? Which person do I have to act like now? And I just couldn't live like that anymore.

It was too suffocating. And so, um, maybe this wasn't the way that you were thinking of coming out. And perhaps I should have warned you that this is the direction that I'm going in. 

Ken Okazaki: I feel like, I don't know if it's worth it. Okay. I got one, one thing I want to share with you. And then I want to ask you a question.

Um, This was in 2009. Uh, me and about, I think, 25 other business owners, I was in a part of a mastermind. It's like one of the last, uh, international travels I did before COVID. And we're all hanging out in a, in a beach house in Manly, Sydney, Australia. And I think that was probably like 25, 20 or 25 people.

And we're all business owners. Everybody's making, you know, at least a million dollars a year, if not more. So it's like a peer group. Right. And one of us was leading an exercise, which was very cool. And basically he says, if you're asked, you know, especially as a business owner, like to share your life story, Then by default, we all just talk about the highlights.

That's just, you know, what we do as humans. And he says, but what I want you to do, and we had this big flip chart, right? We draw a line right through the middle. And then you're going to put a dot anywhere on the board. But the line means like neutral. Anything above the line and the further from the line is the levels of positivity.

How good something is. Anything below is level of negative experiences you had. He says. What I want you to do is draw all your experiences and represent them with dots above and below the line in chronological sequence as you can remember them. And he says for every positive, the next one has to be the next negative experience.

You know? it's a much more accurate portrayal of, you know, what actually happens. So, We all got our flip charts and we're just drawing these dots and we're thinking, okay, you know, like they just dots, right? And then, it was very smart of him. He didn't reveal the next part. He says, now what we're gonna do is one by one, you're gonna tell us what that.is, and then you're gonna draw a line to the next dot.

What, what, what was that? Dot, and you have to tell the story behind every single dot. Okay? So then you see like this, this, you know, it looks like a stock market thing. And you start unpacking. The shit. And then because you drew them in order, like, yeah, you can, of course you can tell bullshit stories. When I got up there in front of all these guys who I had never told about, you know, my past, I actually was like, I was like, I thought to myself, well, it's been good.

And if these guys are going to think I'm a weirdo and kick me out of the group for being a, you know, born in a cult, then, you know, might as well, because I can't live this lie anymore. And I was bawling and, and, oh my God, I don't even remember half of what I said, but I was bawling so hard as I was telling, and I never felt so much love and support from a peer group in my life.

And these guys are still my best friends in the world. and also it's not something that I did publicly like to random strangers because I just, I didn't really see the purpose. But in that group, because we were so much about mutual support, I felt purpose behind taking the time to explain.

And them understanding who I am and where I came from. And these are still like my best fucking friends in the world. Because of, they're the only ones who I've ever said in a public setting. When I say public, it's like, you know, not, not millions of random people on the internet, but. Like this one might potentially be.

June Kato: Potentially. 

Ken Okazaki: Um, but to, you know, a closed group of people behind closed doors. But it was extremely liberating. And my connection with everybody there got deeper. I felt understood. And then I started thinking, well, where else can I do this? But then, That's been a while and I haven't really done that again, but that was a cool experience.

June Kato: Yeah. It's terrifying too, to like literally show your most authentic self because that's literally what our brains are wired to not do, right? Don't show vulnerability, you could be killed. It literally feels like you're about to, like, you could possibly die sometimes when you go into those areas that are so, Soft.

But, um, like similar to, to what you did, I, I didn't open up for the first time in a public setting on social media or anything like that. It was in a very private group of entrepreneurs as well. Um, it was this course called Mastery of Self Expression that's led by, um, Larry Gilman, who, you know, Cool Runnings, the movie, He, he acts in that movie and he's, um, he's an actor in Hollywood and a producer, director.

And so he runs this course all about finding your true, authentic expression. And he was like, okay, now it's time for all of you to take a risk and share something about yourself. really choose, you know, this is a place to, it's a safe place, but not a place to, to play safe. So why don't you share something about you that's a little bit unsafe.

And I was like, oh, there's so many things. But that was, that was the one that came out in front of everybody. And yeah, same. I was, I was bawling and all kinds of emotions came out. There was like, So much rage, so much suppressed rage that I just hadn't looked at, that I hadn't dealt with, and a lot of just grief as well, and, and sadness, and, and after I was able to, to experience those emotions and, and really process them and have them seen and accepted and not have them judged, then I was like, Oh, Now I can see the joy and and all of the beautiful things that that experience has given me as well So it's just it was liberating and I recommend everybody go to that course because it is just wow 

Ken Okazaki: All right.

Well, if you're watching this on YouTube then go to the links in the description You're listening on the podcast. Look at the show notes. We'll find the link and put it in there. June. I wonder Because you came over to my house You Uh, just a little while ago and that's when we had a conversation and I said, Hey, why don't we do this podcast?

I don't know what we're going to talk about. And here we are. And I remember that you also started another podcast years ago and that kind of fizzled out. Right. I'm wondering, like, do you think that this story has legs to start a series about where maybe it's not just story. Right. Maybe it's. Maybe it's just our experience as growing up in cults.

We could bring in guests, you know, because we know a lot, a lot. Um, we could just talk about the, the shit that we've gone through and, and also the positives because damn it, it's not like cults aren't, you know, Like, they gotta mix good stuff in there, and otherwise people aren't that stupid, so then there's, there's, you know, to join.

June Kato: And I think the experience isn't as rare as we might think, or as a lot of people might think. Oh, it's not. It's, it's very prevalent. My therapist was 

Ken Okazaki: also a cult member, and she, she, and I was like, no way, yeah. So, when she told me that, I was like, alright. now we're buddies. Now 

June Kato: you get it. Now you get me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But 

Ken Okazaki: there's a lot of them. 

June Kato: And I bet there's a lot of 

Ken Okazaki: podcasts that talk about this too. 

June Kato: Probably. 

Ken Okazaki: But do you, do you want to consider 

June Kato: I will consider talking about it. I'm very open about, uh, to talking about it yeah, yes. I can't really say, so for me, like I said, I was out of it.

Well, don't make any decisions on the spot 

Ken Okazaki: here. I ambushed you here just now with this, but you ambushed me earlier, just bringing you up close. You're right, you're right. 

June Kato: Um, but, but I'm very open to it. All I can say is that my experience ended around the time that I was 10. And so what it is that I perceived or what it is that I saw is, probably not like a fully put together picture.

Um, so all I can speak about is just my experience and not necessarily what cults are or what this was just my own personal one. And then, you know, 

Ken Okazaki: I think that's what it's going to be about. It's going to be about experiences. It's not going to be about us judging or theorizing or systematizing anything to do with cults.

Just talking about experiences. 

June Kato: All right, then I'm there. Yeah, 

Ken Okazaki: 100%. That was my question. If you'd be open to talk about that. And here's something else that's come up. Um, like our dad, myself, you, and a few people, uh, in our family are earning a lot more than the average Japanese person as far as like salaries go.

And I don't know if you think that's Like, you think it's a byproduct of just not fitting in and then having to figure out our own solutions, which gives us an asymmetric reward if it works out or like, 

June Kato: I don't know what it is for every single, you know, people. Do you think there's a connection though, between 

Ken Okazaki: that and earning potential?

Like being, 

June Kato: I feel like that is very, very individual because everybody chooses how their experience is to find them and affect them. I know that for me. Um, and I think for you too, I think a lot of it comes from like, Half of it is just blind optimism, for me at least. You know, I like to say that I think about Oh 

Ken Okazaki: my god, there's so 

June Kato: much of that.

I like to think, to say that I'm very logical and I think about all of the outcomes, and I do to an extent, but the more I think, I'm like, this is not going to fucking work. I'm not taking action. I'm just like, you've got to take that leap of faith. You've got to jump in. And then I get all of the scars and the bruises from like, tumbling and then I'm like, well, here we go again.

I'm like, jump again. So I feel like it's half logic. half blind enthusiasm and optimism and and maybe that's something that you see in a lot of entrepreneurs actually. Or else how could you keep doing it when it keeps beating you down for so many years until you finally get that breakthrough and then you, you know, break through that ceiling and then you're like, Oh, I love this.

And you keep on going and going and you hit that next ceiling. Like, ah, shit, this again. 

Ken Okazaki: Did you ever watch that movie, The Prestige, about the magicians? 

June Kato: Oh, uh, hold on. It's like 

Ken Okazaki: a early 2000s movie. 

June Kato: Yes, I love that movie with, uh, Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale. Yes. I loved it. Yes. 

Ken Okazaki: It was so good. Now, if anybody listening hasn't watched it yet, then you might want to skip this part because there's a spoiler.

so the whole thing is like, there's this act that this guy cannot figure out. Like there's these two competing magicians and this one act, this guy drowns in a big Like, You know, tank of water, like he drowns, he died. But then all of a sudden you see him appear on the opposite side of the stage.

And he has done this trick so many times that nobody in the world can figure out what happens. And he's the most successful magician in the world. And then his big secret, that's revealed at the end, and spoiler alert, plug your ears if you actually plan on watching this. His big secret is that he figured out how to clone himself.

And then he kills. The version of himself, the version of himself that dies in the water actually is actually dead. And then a clone of himself comes on the stage. And that, that clone still has all the memories and everything of, of the original guy, when that's revealed. this guy finds himself like in a warehouse with all these drowned bodies.

And that's how he discovers like a secret. This like he's, this guy has died painful, agonizing deaths. And I feel like. This blind optimism is like that, that version of us that's still alive is. the is the version that people see, but there are so many corpses of ideas, endeavors, uh, you know, even public proclamations of what we're going to do, or at least myself, I'm speaking for myself here and they have died.

And there's a basement full of dead, dead business ideas, dead. Yes, there are. I want to say it's a secret. I'm not hiding it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think that if someone were to take a tour through my, proverbial basement of dead bodies, there's a lot, but for some reason, I'm just like, next, next, next, yeah, 

June Kato: yeah, yeah, I don't call it my basement.

For me, I've always referred to it as my graveyard of old selves, because there's a part of it. your old self in order to get to the next level that you have to bury and say goodbye to. At least that's how I felt for so long. Um, because whenever you go to the next level, there's a part of this feeling of kind of disgust in a way that you have to have for yourself so you can like push off and then go to that next level.

Um, But recently what I've been working on internally is instead of although yes I do have to go through that process of you know Being disgusted with a certain part of me that is no longer working so I can move on to the next level or whatever it Is that's waiting for me. I'm trying to cycle through that process quicker And so I can bring all of those parts of me and integrate them into just like the whole of who I am.

Um, so that's kind of my internal journey right now. That's, that's what I'm working on. And, and that's also, you know, similar to what we're talking about now. Not, trying to, remove or cut a part of myself or my past, like being born and growing up in a cult that is indivisible from who I am. I can't cut a part of myself off and then hope to be seen and loved exactly as I am.

Because. We all just want to be loved for who we are, but then we are like, no, no, but I'm just going to only show you this part. And then we're like, why don't you see me or understand me? But it's all, it's all up to us. 

Ken Okazaki: Yeah, it's so true. So true. Like, I, as I'm going through Carl Jung's work and what you described, there's really a lot of what his, his core.

But there are just so many layers to that. Every time I read it, I'm just like, oh wow, that's like, when you understand one thing, then it unlocks understanding for 30 other things that you read but didn't understand before. And I think it's even more true for yourself. Like you can't understand what's going on in layer number five until you read it.

June Kato: You've gotten to layer number five, like, even though you can see it, you can't understand it until you experience it. 

That's right. That's right. Well, one thing that I've always felt that was really interesting about and that is very different from the way they that you are from me. I feel like, and I really respect just the way that you have kind of taken on the world from the outside layer.

I feel like you started on the outside crust of like business and then taking action and making things and creating things in this physical world. Um, which I am just in such awe of constantly because that's where I struggle a little bit more. Whereas for me, I've always started deep, deep, deep. inside. I start with, does this fit my intuition?

How does this feel? Is it congruent with who I am? And so I feel like slowly I'm like coming in and like going out into the big world and they're like, okay, now it's time to, to, to create more things and be seen. Whereas for you, I feel like you started from the outside and now you're like diving in into, you know, the therapy and the young and all of that, which is really amazing.

Um, it just shows me repeatedly, uh, it doesn't really matter how you get there. We all. If you're on the path of growth, we're all getting there somehow. 

Ken Okazaki: Well, I'll tell you what, I started on the path of survival because when we left the cult, we already had six kids. And we had no way to support ourselves.

I had no job qualifications, no job experience, and, I was just looking at what's available and I'm just like, to make the kind of money I need to make, and knowing that I have no, specialized marketable skill, that's like accredited, I'm just like, then I just have to do it myself.

Like, no one's going to, at this point, hire me at the rate that I need to get paid in order to support my family. So I'm just like, We're going to start a business. And that was that. I knew nothing. I knew nothing. you know, the only job I had as a paid employee before that was when I just left the call.

I was 17 years old and I was, uh, a bricklayer in Osaka for, yeah, that's the only like paid job I had. Employment I had. Well, actually, no, like I did like two or three days. I worked at a banana packing factory 

June Kato: when I was a teen in Chiba. Do you remember 

Ken Okazaki: that? 

June Kato: I think I did that like once, but I remember a lot of the 

Ken Okazaki: teens going.

So, okay, technically I got paid there, but literally, I went like two or three days, maybe made a total of a hundred bucks. Right. And then I worked for like three months as a bricklayer in Osaka and from then I never did paid work and that means no, no experience, no degrees.

that's like marketable. So it was like, well, it was six kids, and two adults, that's eight fucking people in Japan. That's not cheap. 

June Kato: It's not cheap. And it's no joke. It's a no joke. It's not for the faint of heart. That's for sure. 

Ken Okazaki: Well, I was pretty faint of heart and I was like fucking fainting every day.

Internally. But it's like, you know, I guess. Like, if you look at any kind of, martial arts, you know, like they just punch that same fucking wooden board for thousands and thousands of times, knuckles bloody like every single day. But then that's the process that gives you the resilience and the strength to like I was so beat up, man, like so beat up.

I didn't know what I was doing. I knew nothing. And then, uh, 

June Kato: so what did you, what was your strength? What did you turn to? What kept you going? Like, what is the core value or belief that you had? I mean, cause like a lot of people have kids, but they don't. Always decide to, to stick with them or raise them.

Uh, you know, we know a lot of parents like that who, who have kids, but they don't, they don't take responsibility for them for their whole lives. Whereas that's something that I really respect is that you have been a central figure. Um, you know, both you and Natasha have been central figures and have this have a very strong family core.

And I just wonder where those values. come from, where that belief comes from, because it's not something that we had growing up. We didn't have a father figure who represented that. And, you know, mother figures were all over the place. 

Ken Okazaki: My, my parents didn't raise me. Like, I think your mom raised you mostly, right?

But for me, it was neither. No, no, not really. I didn't even live with them from the age of seven, I think six, seven, something like that. Um, was 

June Kato: there someone or something you saw that you wanted to model? 

Ken Okazaki: I don't know. Like me and Natasha, I've had a lot of conversations and Natasha is my wife, by the way.

and we have very different views about parenthood but not, not different values. So here's what I mean by this. She, she was also born and raised in the cult and I hope she's okay with me talking about this because we met and married in the cult and had kids, which was highly encouraged because pretty much they figured, let's, let's do this.

Let's breed members instead of, you know, recruiting. I think that was the tactic, but, uh, she, she's French and she grew up with very, very warm, doting parents. So like every day, like not, I don't know about every day, but they would, travel together and pioneer new countries and set up, like they were that kind of thing.

So they're a small tight knit family unit, very warm, very affectionate. And she grew up with both her parents. So she had this very strong like model of what parenting should be based on her experience being brought up by both her parents. I didn't have any of that. Not brought up by dad, by my dad or my mom.

Um, as brothers and sisters, we kind of were near, but never, like, didn't, weren't grown up. Like, we didn't sit down together as a family and eat meals together, like you're in group A and another home, or like, they just sent us all over the place. Wow, so much to unpack here. So, And I don't know where this came from, but I've always had a very, very strong sense of responsibility, and she has a strong sense of emotional connection, and I prioritize by default responsibility, and she prioritizes responsibility.

You know, connection, feeling emotionally connected. And so sometimes, like for me, the biggest failure in life would to be to not fulfill my responsibility to children who are mine. And that would be even more important. And right now, of course, I think I've changed a little bit, but at the time. Worse than my kids hating me, worse than my my kids, making, you know, bad life decisions as adults was that I didn't do my very best to fulfill my responsibility to them as the provider and protector.

And that was, that was like, The worst of the worst of the worst of indicator of who I am as a human, and I don't know where that came from, but it still is that. And I don't, I don't know where that came from. So that super deep sense of responsibility. And right now it's, it's kind of extended more to like my entire team who, you know, all over the world.

my wife is pretty much HR for them now, she works for me, and she's the one who connects with everybody and keeps the emotional connection strong, and I'm the one who's just like, I better go and make some fucking money because I'm responsible for these guys roof over their head, the food in their mouth, you know, the rent, you know, and then I take the logical approach.

So who knows where these values came from, but it's very, very strong for me, like to provide and protect for the people who depend on me. 

June Kato: That's amazing. And they've definitely sustained you for a long time. That's amazing. 

Ken Okazaki: Thank you. I, I don't know where it came from, but then like, it also means I make decisions where I have to violate other values.

based on that value. Yours or others? Those are mine. Like for example, values such as, you know, be loving. And sometimes what needs to be done to, for me to reach the goal, to be, to do what's responsible is an unloving, uncaring thing. Right? Or, or values such as patience or consistency, and they're, they conflict sometimes, but yes, I've stacked my values so that to protect and to provide is, is at the top.

June Kato: Yeah. I mean, like when it comes to, to what is quote unquote loving that. isn't one singularly defined act or way of being, it changes from moment to moment and what it means or, or exactly because you can be kind and patient and loving with your child who is like shooting themselves up with meth, or you could just be like, fucking stop it, you know, sometimes in many, many forms.

Yes, it's not unloving. 

Ken Okazaki: I would just say love. I said to act loving. Maybe I did say that, but I, to love them is there, but I would say to love is, is not a value. It's more like a feeling, but to act loving is, is a value, right? Like acting kindly towards, uh, wow, I'm, I'm being brought back to date with destiny where I did that whole values thing so many times.

June Kato: Wow. And, uh, yeah, 

Ken Okazaki: I think I'm going to go back soon before they, they canceled the whole thing. Like at some point, time passes June, we're coming close to the end of this hour. I want to respect that. You've got some traveling to do. And I was also. I'm not knowing what we're going to talk about coming into this, but I, somehow I feel this was exactly what we need to talk about.

And I think that you're the only person who could have had the same conversation we had together. Like, I don't think I could bring a cult expert or any of my other brothers and sisters to have this conversation. For some reason, I think they're all fighting their own battles and they're busy and stuff like that.

June Kato: Everybody is. And it takes, honestly, so you were meant talking about how you went through survival in order to get to where you are now. And I went through that too. And while you're still in survival, it's very hard to have the emotional space to look back and process. And it takes a lot of courage and bravery.

And so I don't believe that I could have had this conversation with anybody else either, because I could have brought it up and you could have been like, okay, that's great. And immediately redirected. And so I really have to say like, kudos to you. You are, you are very brave. Brave person to be able to have this conversation in front of your many, many podcast listeners.

So, well done. Well done us. 

Ken Okazaki: Well, you know, it's, it's, it's also a facade, like having a podcast gives you an air of authority. And, and it's also one of those things that people, it's hard to track how many listeners actually are.

I should go look up the numbers. because I don't think it's as big an audience as most people think it is. It's very niche, you know, talking about making money with content. 

June Kato: I think that's a really important though, because content longevity and content comes down to how authentic you can be.

And how okay you are with being perceived as who you truly are with no coverings, no stories attached, just you. Thank you for having me. And thank you for exploring this topic and this conversation. It's my pleasure, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it. 

Ken Okazaki: Thank you, I enjoyed it too. 

And, uh, for everybody else who's listening, I appreciate you listening to the end of this. I don't know how many of you made it. Maybe there's like literally two people who they're so busy at the gym working out they don't have time to hit pause or skip or they're driving. But this is definitely the most unique episode ever on the Content Capitalist.

I guess I could say that we, we did create some content because we did a podcast. We didn't really talk about capitalizing on it at all. So it's 50 percent following the theme. No, and June, this is no, in no way a side remark to you. I think that this is exactly the podcast episode it needs to be. I agree.

And thanks for coming on the show. 

June Kato: My pleasure. Thank you for having me. 

Ken Okazaki: All right, guys. If you want to go find out more about June, um, is it okay, June, if I drop your social media links down below? 

June Kato: Uh, you can. They're, it's, they're not professional by any way, shape or form, but please feel free to follow me and you can see what I'm up to.

Ken Okazaki: I'd like you to. Ask a question that I will answer on this right here, but I want every listener to also ask themselves that. And it can be about anything. 

June Kato: Um, so the question that I have for you and for everybody that's listening, and this is a question that I constantly ask myself, whether consciously or unconsciously, but my question is, what would be the worst thing that would happen if you were to show up authentically every day for your family, for your clients, your employees?

Thank you. But most of all for yourself, what could possibly be the worst thing that happens? And if it's not death, then you're going to be okay. 

Ken Okazaki: I'll answer with what comes to mind and probably if I process it a bit more, it might, I might come out with something different, but this is like, realistically, the worst thing is realistically, maybe, maybe 10 percent of my clients would leave.

and I don't think any would actually, that'd be the worst on team level. I think that the worst thing would be that I can't really think of any negatives, except maybe it will be a distraction from productivity. It'll be because there will be more interest in conversations about my history than about actually getting shit done.

June Kato: There might be, it wouldn't 

Ken Okazaki: be too bad. might be like, what I'm saying is it's actually not that bad, but that's the worst thing I could actually realistically think of. 

June Kato: It's never as bad as we think. So, you know, why not? Why not live with a lighter heart? That's, that's my motto. Actually, 

Ken Okazaki: there is one 

June Kato: thing.

Ken Okazaki: Okay. Like my authentic self is sometimes, really pissed off. And I could filter my, my pissed off, upset, arrogant self. And I do feel that's authentic. And I think I could hurt a lot of people if I'm always being authentic to my feelings and beliefs.

And, uh,

that part's scary. There's a bit of a Hulk in there, you know? 

June Kato: Yeah. This is like, okay, that, that could be a whole nother podcast. That could be a whole other episode that we could really get into because I love this, this stuff. This is my favorite. I could talk about this shit forever. 

Ken Okazaki: Okay, Jun, you're on and bye for now.

Everybody else. Thank you so much for sticking with us to the end and I'll see you next week.