My Hidden Past: Inside a Cult (Part 2) | June Kato-Rider

This episode isn't about content creation or making money. It's about diving deeper into my past, growing up in a cult, and how it shaped who I am today.

If you’re looking for content creation and marketing tips, skip this one. But if you're curious about my background and want to hear more about the raw, uncut stories from my childhood, keep listening.

My sister June Kato-Rider is back for part two of my interview with her. If you haven’t watched the first part yet, visit my channel and look for “My Hidden Past: Inside A Cult | June Kato-Rider”.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The emotional toll of growing up in a cult
• Our father’s rebellious influence
• Transitioning from a sheltered life to the real world
• Turning our past into a source of strength

Lastly, we talk about resilience, overcoming adversity, and the drive that keeps us going.

This is one of the most personal and raw conversations we've had.

Click play and join us.

Follow June Kato-Rider at:

https://www.facebook.com/junie.balloonie/
https://www.instagram.com/junekatorider/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/june-kato-8a5571128/

Follow Ken Okazaki at: 

https://www.instagram.com/kenokazaki/
https://www.youtube.com/c/KenOkazaki
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-content-capitalists-with-ken-okazaki/id1634328251
https://open.spotify.com/show/09IzKghscecbI7jPDVBJTw

Content Capitalists YouTube 

Transcript

Ken Okazaki: The Content Capitalist Podcast is all about content creation and entrepreneurship and making money with social media and video. Now, this one is different. So if you're here looking for the regular content where I interview people making a million dollars or more with content, and you're not interested in other stuff just about me, then you might want to skip this one.

But if you are interested in learning more about me and my past, we go You know, way off the reservation, you may say here. I'm talking to my sister and this conversation led to my life growing up being born in a cult. I was raised in a cult and there was a lot of experiences we had that I'm still unpacking.

So when I was reviewing this podcast, I wanted to make sure that I made it really clear that this is different. And there probably won't be so many of these, but I felt it was worth it to put it out for those who are interested in finding out just a bit more about me and what makes me tick. And really, where did I really come from?

So if that's you keep listening, if it's not, you feel free to skip this and go on to the regular content where we talk all things, content creation and making money. 

June Kato: Dad was always very proud about having two, three wives, the polyamory thing. And when we say wives, it's not like in the legal sense. It's like in the cult sense, like it was sanctioned by the cult. And it was it was weird. Jun Kato is an expert communicator, well known for her proficiency in live simultaneous interpretation for expertise in English.

Ken Okazaki: Japanese translation has made her a credible figure for high profile events with world class speakers and heads of state. My sister and I, we were both born in a. cult. And you might ask, well, what cult is that? I don't really hang out with too many people who were in the cult, other than our family. There are very few that I do hang out with are ones who have ambitions, who have goals, who have larger visions and who are going for it.

June Kato: Maybe a common point is. That because of the limitation of information and knowledge and our access to be able to learn what we wanted to learn or pursue our interests, that made us both very, very curious people. But one of the things that we're told explicitly to lie about all the time was the content capitalists podcast.

Ken Okazaki: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Content Capitalist podcast. This is one of those rare episodes where I'm going completely on a different topic. And the reason I'm doing this is a few episodes ago, I had a conversation with my sister, June, and I went into it thinking we're going to be talking about how she's working with a lot of world class speakers, interpreting, getting in their lives and, and. about how her very important role of doing live, you know, simultaneous interpretation, English to Japanese and vice versa, how that's, being used in a, like a content or marketing or, you know, kind of perspective. And then we went a totally different direction. And I'm really glad we did. And if you heard that one, then, you might've noticed some hesitation in my voice.

I wasn't sure where that was going and I wasn't sure if I wanted to go there. And if you haven't heard it yet, then please go back. There'll be a link below to the previous episode. Uh, which if you're watching on YouTube, it's in the description. If you're listening on the podcast, go to the show notes. 

Now I brought her back because that conversation led me. To start exploring, actually talking about my past and in the last one, we were a bit vague. We didn't talk specifically. What I did mention, which might catch everybody's attention is that my sister and I, we're both born in a cult and you might ask, well, what cult is that? 

And here's the thing. There's going to be so many different perspectives. What is a cult? What isn't a cult? And so I just looked it up on ChatGPT and I'm going to read you the ChatGPT. What they think is our cult. So, here it is. Children of God, which was later renamed The Family International, is a religious movement that started in 1968 in California, founded by David Berg.

The group initially drew young followers with its radical Christian teachings against the backdrop of the counterculture era. It became controversial for its practices, especially flirty phishing, where sexual relationships were used for proselytization and fundraising, leading to widespread criticism and legal litigation. challenges. In the 1990s, in an attempt to rehabilitate its image, the group rebranded as The Family International. It shifted its focus towards traditional evangelical Christian activities and humanitarian work. and more, that will continue to be affected by its history of controversial practices and allegations of abuse.

The organization made efforts to distance itself from some of its more extreme doctrines, but it still remains under scrutiny and has seen a decline in membership due to its past.So, that's the short version, and uh, if you search that name online, there'll be a ton of people, who are probably, mostly ex members, like ourselves, who have a lot to say.

And there was a lot of really messed up stuff that happened. I've been born into it, had no idea that I wasn't a cult. And I think one of the things that they said over and over and over as he grew up is we are not a cult. I was like, of course we're not a cult because that's what I was thought. And only after.

The internet wasn't invented. Did I discover this is seeming a lot like a cult . So that's the backdrop for this and, we'll keep referencing this. If people ask, what cult was it? You know, and just ask Chad, GBTI, I think that there, it's a pretty fair assessment, but it's hard to put the experiences we had into just a few short paragraphs like that.

So we might discuss that. We might discuss other things, but I'm letting June control the narrative from here on out. 

June Kato: Um, well, first of all, thank you for having me back. Yeah, last, last time it definitely went in the direction that was unplanned because we both went in with no plan, which is oddly where I thrive, so I like that we have, um, a bit of a framework this time, and as I was like listening to you read out what chat GPT came up with about what the children of God were or what the family international was.

I was just thinking, like, yeah, that's a really interesting overview, but it actually doesn't tell you anything about who the people are. And I think what the really, truly interesting story is, or what, I would want to hear is what your personal experience is within that, because they're so varied.

I know that because you were born, into it like six years before me, the direction that your life took and the direction that my life took is completely different, and I know that our experiences were also very, very different just in that short time span, and so just for me personally, I want to hear more about that.

What it was like for you, and we can do this at any phase. We can do this at childhood or you know, like teenage years coming of age. Or we could do it from like immediately the point that you became a dad. Like, 'cause you've done a lot really a really amazing and crazy things. Like you only worked at a company for, how long was it?

Three months. And then from there you started building your own businesses or just like doing different jobs to support your family. You've, you've lived in, uh, yeah, Uganda and in France and were you also in Thailand as well? 

Ken Okazaki: Yeah, I think a good place to start is like as early as I can remember. And that's probably, uh, it's probably seven, six, five, six, seven, somewhere around there.

We were living in Komazawa, which is, close to Tokyo. Actually, it's in Tokyo, but. I remember it was not very developed, and we were like, it's Within the cult they called it homes, and basically what that meant is like, you can't live alone, just your family, you have to live with other members, and that's pretty much their way of like, really keeping an eye on each other I think.

So it was never just our family, as far as I can remember. I think it might have been before, I can remember, because I saw some photos, it looked like it was just our family. To the best of my memory, we always had to live with other cult members and they had like, these roles like Hope Shepherds and stuff. 

I didn't really understand any of that. It just was normal growing up. I never questioned it. But, one thing that was very distinct is that when I was 8 or 9 is when I was first exposed to English.And up until then, you know, my dad and I guess my mom, we all just spoke Japanese. I didn't know any English and, uh, we moved.

What? 

June Kato: Wow. You didn't know that? 

Ken Okazaki: You didn't know? I did not know English until, yeah. 

June Kato: No. Yeah. 

Ken Okazaki: And we just, it was all Japanese. And there was this very distinct memory I had because we went to, My grandmother's house. Like, we used to go there every year. Right now, she's, not in the condition to, to take guests.

When we'd go there, I saw this home video that Dad shot. And, I think at the time I saw it, I must have been like 15, 16 or something. I saw a video of myself as a little toddler speaking fluent Japanese. I was like, what the fuck? You know, like I was like, no way. And because I couldn't even understand what I was saying in that video, which is weird, like I was speaking fluent Japanese and let me just, you know, get the whole elephant, in the room thing, address the elephant in the room so from that point, somewhere between seven, eight, nine, we moved to. 

I can't remember the name of the city. It was called Heavenly Heights, and it's what they call a combo. And what that means is like, there's like a ton of people, like a couple hundred maybe, living together as like big, huge kind of commune. And at that place where we moved, you know, where it was just like our small unit to there, everybody there only spoke English to each other.

So I was like in a fight for survival. I learned English pretty quickly, I think. And I don't know when it happened, but at some point I forgot my Japanese. And from that point on, I only spoke English. And I did learn later on that before the age of 10, apparently, it's actually dangerous to introduce a new language to a child if the previous one is not being reinforced because they can lose the first one.

I didn't know that was a thing. And, I didn't know if my parents knew it was a thing. But by the time I was 17, I had completely forgotten Japanese. And because we were in the cult, right? Like we did not interact with systemites. Systemites was any non cult member. That was the word for it. And we did not part, you know, watch TV.

That was bad, bad, bad, you know? We did not, do any, like any video we watched, any music we listened to, every book we read was created by the cult. So they had a hundred percent control on every type of input. 

June Kato: Right. You guys didn't have movie night? You didn't? 

Ken Okazaki: At that age, it was, Very rare. Like we could watch like maybe one a week, but even then one at age there was, it was not even really happening.

No. And they were also pre edited, like to take anything that would like the videos there, they're on these VHS tapes, right? And the leadership would watch these, you know, like Hollywood movies and they'd edit them to take out anything that might give us ideas, and then we had quotas. We could watch like one movie a week, maybe.

June Kato: That's so funny. You just like brought back a memory that I totally forgot about. So like one of those movies for me when I was young was a 101 Dalmatians by Disney. And it was so edited that the whole thing was like 20 minutes. I grew up thinking that After One Dalmatians, the whole movie was a 20 minute movie!

And so, later on when I watched it, I was like, Holy crap, what is this? 

Ken Okazaki: It's actually a good story, I thought it was.

Yeah, so that kind of stuff. I don't know if I ever watched a 20 minute version. It would be interesting to see what Gosh, 

June Kato: that was the only version I knew. There is also like a 15 20 minute version of Pinocchio 2, like the whole movie. I had no idea about, was it Fantasy Island, where the boys go, and all of that.

Ken Okazaki: They just cut it all out, huh? 

June Kato: They cut everything out. They cut out the fox and, and the cat, all of that. only the, with quote unquote good scenes that wouldn't give us negative thoughts and bad ideas. Wow. Shoof. Totally forgot about that. 

Ken Okazaki: Ah. People ask me all the time. why do you speak English so well?

Why It's like, and my short answer is, I went to international school and they called it a school, but I don't think it was like, government accredited or anything. It was just a thing. they did make some curriculums though. Like what they would ship us these paperwork books.

And there was two brands and there were Christian publishers in the U S that we'd buy them from. One was called a Becca book. And that was actually decent. And there was another one called Super Workbook. That was absolute garbage. Like literally the Super Workbook, it looked like a phone book, right? It's super, super thick.

And what it was is that every page is a workbook and it teaches you something and you do it. And you know, there, it was technically professionally made, but the book is A whole year of education said like, page one is science, page two is math, page three is, arithmetic, whatever. Right? And you just go from cover to cover and then you're done.

You're great. And I just looked at it and I was like, this is, you know, like I sped through it didn't care. But Becca book was actually interesting. they had good artwork, good research, and me growing up, I didn't think anything of it. But it's extremely, like Religious themed, you know?

So everything in there is like, when it comes to like nature, it's like, you know, we do learn some biology and then it talks about how God created this and God created that. I'm just like, and I just took it at face value. Now I'm like, eh, A little skeptical about some stuff. . 

June Kato: Yeah, . But I did enjoy 

Ken Okazaki: the Becca stuff.

Yeah. 

June Kato: Wow. Did you ever have to do, so I remember doing a lot of CLE, Christian Light Education workbooks. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I do remember that one. Somehow. It was very confusing for me because when it came to like a lot of the history, because I think the Christian light publications, they're like a Mormon group or something.

And so when they would teach about history, it would be about Mormon history. And when they would like teach about like money and currency, it would all be like in dollars and nickels and cents. And I was so confused. I was like, wait, we live in Japan. None of this is. relevant. Why am I learning to count dimes?

I'm like a little kid. I'm like, what? Wow. So interesting. What 

Ken Okazaki: was weird for me is like, you know, the first time I ever went to the U S I was in my thirties, but before up until then, and even now I know more about us politics, us history, geography, law than I do about Japanese, about any of those things, because I took an American school curriculum living in Japan, which is.

So weird. And it might be the same case with you. and maybe that's why I feel really comfortable when I move, when I travel to the States, because it feels familiar. I understand the law, the tax systems, the legislative branches, the different historical, locations and stuff.

More than most Americans, apparently, like, just cause, and I can't figure out why, COG didn't come up with their own curriculum at some point. I'm glad they didn't. It would have been, it would have been the weirdest of all of them. 

June Kato: I don't think they had enough history to come up with, um, with it. Hmm.

I'm not, I'm actually not sure, but didn't they have like a whole educational board or department that did come up or at least found those workbooks? They never made their 

Ken Okazaki: own curriculum. 

June Kato: I don't think so. I think that was like standardized. That's so interesting hearing your experience because weirdly, it's almost the exact opposite for me.

So, like, I remember just only speaking English, only doing English, up until the age of 10 years old when, Dad decided to leave. And so then all of a sudden I was thrown into the Japanese school system with absolutely no Japanese skills. I couldn't read, I couldn't write. And so I was like fighting for my life in that scenario, in that situation to learn Japanese and try to, just acclimate myself into, to that world.

Um, yeah, it was very interesting. There's all of these like parallels. So I had like a weird mixture of Japanese. education, like history, what went on in the Sengoku period, and then some also random, like, pilgrim history in there too. But one thing that I find is very curious, and that is, um, maybe a common point, is that, because of the limitation of information and knowledge and our access to be able to learn what we wanted to learn or pursue our interests that made us both very, very curious people.

Like, I don't know a lot of people who are quite as curious and will deep dive into maybe what seems on the outside very randomized topics, but something that actually is probably very, very real and very close to, to, to the heart, both for me and for you as well. So 

Ken Okazaki: that could be true, but I, I want to counter that because I think the, if we look at people we grew up with who are in the same situation as us, I think we're outliers.

There's not many people who I grew up with who were in the same environment, who are as curious and as ambitious and as, curious as me. You and I are. I mean, if you, if you feel like we're the average of the people we grew up with, then I'll accept your hypothesis, but that's not the reality I'm seeing.

June Kato: Yeah. I mean, you, you could have a point there because honestly, I don't really hang out with too many people who, We're in the cult, other than, you know, our family, there are very few, and the few that I do hang out with are ones who have ambitions, who have goals, who have larger visions, and who are going for it, and so, yeah.

Ken Okazaki: But then if we look at that, that from an economic standpoint, you hang out with them because they are. 

June Kato: Possibly, yes, yes. 

Ken Okazaki: like, I do hang out with just a few and they're the ones who I feel are going to, we can benefit each other. And I know a lot of people who I have not contacted in years and years. I know that, I guess just every now and then I just kind of hear from a friend or a friend or a friend or see something.

Online or something. They're, you know, very happy just doing the same job. Like being an English teacher making 250, 000 a month for the last 10 years, which is in us dollars like less than 2000 bucks. not very much. I mean, you could live on that offline, Japan, but not well. Not well. Not well, well, if you're in Inaka then, you know, you might be okay.

So what I'm trying to say is there are a lot of people who I have lost touch with, and I think there's more of those than there are, I'm in touch with, but I don't want to pass judgment. I just want to say that, like. I don't think that our curiosity, and it might be enhanced by that because of maybe a certain gene or something in us, but I don't think it's across the board thatthose limitations kind of like popcorn are going to make us, you know, when we release it really explodes.

I think some people are just gonna be happy kernels their whole day. 

June Kato: I love how the happy kernel, but no, I'm not a happy kernel. I'm not, I'm super not and, and I think that's both my strength as well as my weakness. And I'm not gonna credit all of this to, to one person. But I do have to say that our dad is somebody who has always been just a rebel. He was so rebellious. If he finds a round peg, he will make himself a square hole.

And if there is a square hole, he will make himself a round peg. And I just remember him having such a fighting spirit, and even in the cult getting in so much trouble because he would always question authority, question the way that things are done. And very recently, he actually had a bit of a I have a medical scare, an issue, and he went to the hospital and when he got checked in, the doctor was telling him, how he needs to take care of his body, what he needs to do to get better, and even then, he was arguing with the doctor, and I was just like, wow, that rebel is still so alive, it's, it, it was very, very inspiring to me, and I know that that has brought him so much trouble.

And I know that I've gotten into so much trouble too in my life just because of that, but I really feel like that fire is something that I am so thankful for, and I see it, I definitely see that, that gene, and some people, okay, well not some, Motha calls it, and little chip on all of the Okazaki's shoulder.

And I'm like, yeah, we have a little bit of a chip. It's like, you do not tell me what to do! 

Ken Okazaki: And don't you ever take my chip away from me. 

June Kato: Yes, exactly! Like, just hand me the salsa! I want a stack of chips, you know. 

Ken Okazaki: I want, I want, I want them like Pringles, you know, like, you know, a stack of them, you know. I want a stack.

June Kato: I'll be the chip. You be the salsa. We can make this work. Okay, but don't date my chip. This is what gets me light. This is what gets me juice. 

Ken Okazaki: You just unlocked something for me. I think that's why he joined in the first place. He was 16, right? And he just, wanted to give a big fuck you to everything that was considered being a good boy.

He literally ran away from home and joined a cult. you know the story, right? 

June Kato: I, I've heard it. Yes. Okay. I'm going to recount it the best I 

Ken Okazaki: can, and then you fill in the blanks with what you remember. Please. So this is the way dad explained it, at least. And I never got this corroborated.

Maybe I, I don't think there's anyone who can now. Oh, maybe his brother. We should talk to uncle soon. Yes. 

June Kato: Yes. I've heard it from, go for it. Yeah. From grandma and from what's he? Okay. 

Ken Okazaki: Grandma did corroborate the story. Okay, good. and the reason we can't corroborate with her is she has, uh, 

She's got dementia, and it's at the level where she will not be able to corroborate that stuff. Apparently, my dad's brother joined first, and he became a cult member, but back then it was, they call it like a revolution or something, right? And, so this is early days when the cult first started expanding in Japan, and they're just looking for, you know, kids on the street pretty much.

And, so then he joined, and then he introduced it to my dad, who at the time was 16, if I remember correctly. So my dad was like, Oh yeah, I should totally join. But then his parents, my grandparents were like, no, no, no. Like, it's totally, you know, like you're not going to be allowed to go. and he kept threatening to, and they wouldn't let him.

So then it came to the point where they checked his bags every day before he went to school, to high school, to make sure he's not bringing any money or clothes or anything so that he could run away. So he only has his books. So then if he doesn't come home, he's, he doesn't have anything. And that was their way of, you know, Keeping tabs on him 

But then he kind of already decided I'm going to run away from home and join the cult. So then at school, he tells all his friends his plan to run away and he asks them for their help and then what happens the next day when he goes to school, All his friends bring a bit of money, some clothes, and some stuff that he could survive on so that he could run away from home.

So he went to school. like any other day and then he met with his friends at school, they gave him, you know the stuff that they promised, and then he ran away and joined the cult. And that's, that was his thing. So yes, that's definitely rebel material right there. And it's probably like the greatest adventure of his life, you know, like unfolding at 16 years old.

Was it 16 or 18? Maybe it was 18. 

June Kato: So, no, what I heard was that, yeah, first our uncle joined, and then he told our dad about it, and they joined together. but, and then after he ran away, my grandma and grandpa, they realized that they couldn't control him. This is what, this is what grandma told me. They couldn't control him, but at least she banged him after he joined to come back and just graduate high school, please.

And so he came back home to grandma's place once, and then he turned 17, and then right before he was gonna graduate high school, like three months before, he was like, no, I'm out of here, and he went and joined again. And so like, for grandma, she always was saying like, oh, that is like, oh, the tragedy of my life that he didn't at least join.

graduate high school. She couldn't keep him for those last three months. He absolutely refused. He was like, I'll come back for a while, but then I'm going to leave again on my terms. 

Ken Okazaki: So I think that the idea of joining a cult was really, yeah, his vibe. He was just like, just the rebellious teen, you know, probably pretty angry at the world for whatever reason. 

But I never saw like strained relations between him and, our grandparents, his parents. But I guess by that time, it's been long enough, like, guess,15 years later or whatever. I don't know. 

June Kato: they definitely, I think it took a long time for grandma, to accept it. But, um, and there was a time where she told me that, I think, I don't remember, so he was still in his early 20s, oh, maybe you were bored, and maybe Our sister, Wendy, might've been born.

And she kept asking him to come back, please come back, please come back. But then he, one day, he was living in one of those homes in Tokyo and then he just disappeared cause she used to know where he lived. And then she went to try and find him and she called the home, but he wasn't there anymore. And so she got so scared.

And so she, like for weeks and for months searched all around Tokyo just to find him, just to find you, our sisters, because she was so worried. And then finally, after like months of calling all of the different homes, she found the home that he was in. She went there. And she just broke down and started crying.

She's like, I'm so sorry. I pushed you away. I know I pushed you away, but please don't ever cut me off from you, from our family. And apparently dad had disappeared with, you know, the few kids at the time because she just kept pushing him and he was just scared. And so she was, after that, she said, she decided she was never going to push him away.

She was never gonna, question his choices. She still teased him about it whenever we'd go see him, but she was never going to just disregard who he is, the choices that he made, because she loved us so much. She loved him so much that she put all of that aside. And I just thought like, wow, that is so beautiful.

What a beautiful gift to give to her. Yeah. She told me that like, I think, uh, 12 years ago when I went to visit her. It was really beautiful. And I was just like, that is really a mother's love. 

Ken Okazaki: I'm gonna tear up now. We just had Mother's Day, you know, and that's, that's mother's love. 

June Kato: Yeah, it really is.

Because up until then, she had a lot of questions and she was just so down on him. But then, yeah, I think when she finally realized what she was doing was hurting him, and that it pushed him away to the point where she may not have contact with us. she was just like, No, I'm just gonna love you for who you are, even though you're weird and crazy.

And Maybe I don't know all of your choices, but I want a connection with my grandchildren. I want to stay connected to you. And so she told me, she was like, never again, I'm not going to push you away. That's why we're able to go visit them all the time. And she was always welcoming in her home. Yeah. It's really beautiful.

Ken Okazaki: Wow. Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. I have like everything has totally different meaning now. You know, growing up, I don't know what it was like when he was, early twenties, which is much. I must have been bored when he was like 22 and Aichi when he was like 21 maybe, 23 maybe I was. I think that well when I grew up there was a lot of teachings in the cult about how, you know, pretty much, the parents can be the worst enemies and stuff, you know, how we gotta distance ourselves And so I wouldn't necessarily blame our elders, Dad for, you know, that I think a lot of it was actually instructions by, whoever was the co leader, like, cause you weren't allowed to move from one home to another without leadership's permission, or if they told you to, you just had to do it.

So if he was being moved around, or if we were being moved around, or if he was moving around, then It's not something he could have done by himself, it had to be the cult leadership, so I, I have a feeling that, that might have been a big part of it, but then, yeah, I don't know. But then I can also understand how an overbearing mother can be some reason for you to just want to distance yourself too.

It can be either way, and I wasn't there, but I'm just trying to kind of, you know, recreate the climate of that situation in my mind, like, when. Like, was he really running away, or was the cult leadership trying to keep him away? I don't know. 

June Kato: It could have been a little bit of both, but I do remember, like, it being very rare.

I mean, this is just in my recollection in the home that we lived in. I felt, I think it was quite rare that we were able to go visit our grandparents so much more than a lot of other people. 

Ken Okazaki: It's true. I always thought it was by choice. Yeah. I I guess dad would've had to have permission to do that each time we went.

June Kato: I think so. And so it's really funny because whenever we go, he always like puts on his pouty face and he's just like, well, oh bachang, or Grandma's always teasing me or you know, she's so hard on me, but I really saw later on when I was able to talk to grandma. just this beautiful connection between mother and son, like yes.

Maybe she didn't get him and maybe he felt like she was too hard on him, but whatever it was, they both made the effort to stay connected and make sure that we were connected. You know, grandma's house was the place to go. It's where we went to connect, where we went to like have some kind of a taste of what.

a life outside of the family was like, and she never looked down on us. She never made us feel weird or dumb for not knowing anything for being like obsessed with whatever was on TV because we never saw TV. 

Yeah, it was, it was just, yeah, it's just really lovely. 

Ken Okazaki: growing up, we had to hide a lot and I'm going to bring this up. It's going to be a huge can of worms where there's no way we're going to be able to finish this Well, first of all, you know, if anybody's listening at this point, thank you for listening.

This is, I think we're just kind of getting warmed up and I just want to help you understand who I am. and June is very graciously helping me unpack this because we both grew up, I guess it was less similar situations than I actually thought. I didn't realize how different it was. But, um, one of the things that we had to, that we're told explicitly to lie about all the time was the fact that dad had two wives, and three at one point.

And when we say wives, it's not like in the legal sense, it's like in the cult sense. Like, it was, you know, sanctioned by the cult. And it was, weird. even me having only grown up in the cult for some reason, instinctively, I thought it was weird. Then again, you have cultures like parts of the world where it's very normal and, you know, where culturally it's been going on for thousands of years.

So I can't say it's wrong intrinsically, 

but it was definitely something every time we visited and bring it up because I remember going to the grandmother's place, like we weren't allowed to talk about his other wives. 

June Kato: That's right. Yeah. 

Ken Okazaki: And that was, that was weird. Very weird. Maybe that's why I thought it was weird because I was told to lie so much.

And maybe that's where the seed of, like, feeling weird started. I don't know. 

June Kato: I know that's where it started for me because it was always a very interesting situation because while we were in the cult, Dad was always very proud about having two, three wives, the polyamory thing. And it's true, there weren't a lot of couples who had two or three or, like, have so many kids with them.

There were a few, but he was definitely open. 

Ken Okazaki: Maybe it was Dad being rebellious again, just like, Watch me. Yeah, maybe. No, three. 

June Kato: Let's see how many I can have. But he was very proud about it. And he'd be like, look at all my kids. Look at this. Look at you're my child. Look at my wife and my wife. But then you know, the moment we would step out and go to our grandmother's place, it was like, don't talk about it.

This is not okay. And so it was very interesting seeing like these different sides of this one human who You know, I'm sure he was doing everything that he needed to in order to just fulfill whatever it was that was driving him forward, but, Yeah, I think that was around the time that I started to realize, oh, you're just a person with a heart and you have fears.

you have mommy and daddy issues like everybody else. I mean, that, that came on, of course, later, but yeah, Always seeing, like, this difference in power dynamics from a very young age was very, uh, insightful into, I think, the human psyche for me, and I was just always so curious, like, why? Why here you can be so powerful and so big, but then all of a sudden when you're put into a different environment, a different situation, then that can get totally flipped?

And so I think that's where my curiosity, in like human behavioral science came from. And so I just, I love that. I love humans. I love their brains. I love how that intertwines and is juxtaposed with your emotions and how they work together or they don't. You know, it's just, yeah, I think like as a case study goes, like that is just like, Oh my God, there's so much meat to just chew into.

Ken Okazaki: Imagine when, you know, future generations, we'll be able to see the, you know, like they dig up some bones and they're able to like, like see all the thoughts and feelings that the person had through the remains. He would be a specimen. 

June Kato: Well, like, yeah. And the thing that I like about is like, he's so terrible at hiding, you know, some people can do all of that, but they just don't show it. But he can't hide. You know, he's so out there and everything he does is so extreme that it's like, it's an amazing case study for human psychology behavior.

I'm just like, wow, you just put that all out there. He's so brave. Or maybe he can't help it. I don't know. 

Ken Okazaki: I think that it's the whole, you know, like if a tree falls in the middle of a forest and no one hears it, was there really a sound? I think for him, it's just like, If a POT comes in my mind and I don't say it, was it really a thought?

Let me try. Did it really 

June Kato: happen? Yes. 

Ken Okazaki: Yeah. 

June Kato: I see flecks of, of that, of him inside of me as well. And, you know, like for so long, because he is such a controversial character, even in the small circle world that he became. kind of notorious in good and bad ways. I had rejected so many parts of myself.

And then like, this is a whole nother category. I was like in the separation and, you know, him being with his other wife and stuff like that and her frustrations. There were so many times when, any behavior that I had shown that was even slightly similar to our dad was like put down. And so I had like compartmentalized and removed.

Uh, myself from being connected to different qualities that he had. And so a lot of this journey is just me reintegrating all of those and being like. Yeah, it's okay. I'm just a weird person and that's actually not so weird. And anyways, that's, that's all. I'm just loving all of the parts of me that come from him.

And then, and now I'm working on the parts of me that come from mom.

And then somewhere in the middle or like in the circle, there I am. Um, sorry, what were you gonna say? 

Ken Okazaki: I think I'm I have gone through and I'm still going through the same thing. I guess it's easy to associate a lot of my previous beliefs and behaviors and thoughts with having been in the cold, but also a lot of it is probably DNA nurture, you know?

I think that just like you said it, there are parts of me that I'm learning to embrace realizing where it came from. I want to kind of close this off with a thought or the question. I mean, Growing up, like before, like even kind of understanding or realizing or having thoughts about leaving the cult, like up until that point, when really there was a point in your life where you believe this is your life, that's everything, right?

Do you remember what some of your biggest fears were? Stuff you secretly feared or thought about? 

June Kato: Um, at the point where I realized that this is my life? 

Ken Okazaki: Before you started thinking about leaving at some point or thinking of an alternative to being in the cult. Like before you realized there was an alternative.

June Kato: Well, I think that for me, my, my experience was very different because dad left. And so we kind of just left with him. I was still 10 years old at the time. And so it wasn't a conscious decision so much to leave so much as it was just a general progression of things at the time. But I do remember this one moment where.

I started to mentally leave because your body can leave a situation but you have all of your past thoughts and emotions and beliefs that you carry on and so maybe you're stuck, I'm stuck, I was stuck living in the past but there was this one time when I was 15 years old. And, the thing that you have to understand about like the family is that they had these very strict rules about eating every single thing on your plate.

You don't leave a single drop and you wipe it off with a tissue. Um, and so there was a lot of actually like a food trauma that I didn't know that I had, but then I went on this date when I was 15 years old and we went to McDonald's cause we were, you know, kids have no money, but. I had ordered, like, a McDonald's set, and I was trying to finish it, and I was really struggling with it, and the guy looked at me, he was like, You don't have to eat all of it.

It's okay. And then something just, like, clicked in my mind, and I was like, Wait, what? I can make different choices? Like, I can have all of these different scenarios and situations in front of me, and I don't just have to go along with what I've been taught? I don't have to force myself to eat every I can just say no?

I can just say no? And that was so mind blowing for me, and so from there I just like started to question different things, I mean, at least what I was conscious of at the time, and then, you know, of course that's still a process that is ongoing now, but, yeah, for me that was a huge turning point, that, that's when I was like, oh, I can actually take a look at this, I can step away from the actions, or, or what it is I've been taught of until now, and I can choose a different path, 

And so from there, it's just been like a process of realizing what has been beneficial for me not to throw the baby out with the bath water because there were amazing, things that came from it, you know, just this ability to be bilingual and to have such an open curiosity and to, well actually, maybe that happened in spite of, not because of, but, um, yeah, that for me to 

Ken Okazaki: stifle curiosity, man.

June Kato: Yes, you're right. Curated curiosity. What about for you? 

Ken Okazaki: I'm not sure. Something that does come to mind is I always thought I wasn't good enough. And I, that was tied directly to, you know, the consequence, like of not making it to heaven, you know, not being one of the chosen ones, not, and there's a big, there's a lot of teachings about, the apocalypse and the end of the world and whether or not you're going to get raptured when Jesus comes, returns in the clouds, or if you're going to get left behind.

when the earth burns, you know? And I think that at one point I must've been somewhere between 10 and 15, that range. I actually logistically started writing down, okay, like, looking at the hemisphere, like what position Christ actually have to be so that the whole world can see it.

Like the Bible says it's going to be. And then I started researching, like, okay, the mirage effect, could that actually like, you know, like reflect his image? And then I came to the conclusion, like, because of the curvature of the earth, there had to be at least to be 64 apparitions simultaneously for that to happen.

I was like, Hmm, but then there's that contradiction with other scriptures about there being only one God and Jesus is one person. And then that's when everything started cracking. I'm just like, wait a sec. And then, you know, I think I was a young Sheldon, actually, like I really was a young Sheldon. there was just like, it's not logistically viable.

Therefore, I started to reject those things, but it was the fear that led me to go and research math. And the math wasn't math then, and that kind of, started chipping away at this facade. And then a whole lot of other shit started out making sense, after. But it was, it was the fear that led me to get to that point.

And, I always had like this fear of inadequacy my whole life. Like, for example, I'm now, I'm five five, like 1 65, which is very short by, most standards. And Japan is not, you know, people don't notice too much. But when I'm in the states, I'm just like. You know, a conversation is a neck exercise, you know,

but then that also meant that growing up I was always the littlest guy by far, except for Gene. When Gene was around, he was littler than me. So , now he's much bigger. just 'cause he was younger, I guess. then that also meant like it was really hard to. You know, when you're a teen, what do you want?

You want, you want to date girls, right? And it was really hard to get noticed. So that kind of compounded on top of the fact that, I always felt like I'm thinking simple thoughts and all that. So I might not get raptured. I might not go to heaven. And that was, uh, that was my fear.

June Kato: I feel like that's really commendable. Just the fact that your fear led you to research more as opposed to shutting down and just becoming like a blind follower. Like that's actually a really amazing quality. So, 

Ken Okazaki: you know what's interesting that you bring this up is, uh, I think it was the last call, last, podcast I did.

Uh, someone named, Lauren Tickner, She's uh, fellow entrepreneur. Last year, she netted 5. 5 million after tax and all expenses. And, you know, she does social media, she teaches people about how to, promote themselves on social media. We're having this conversation and she asked me, what drives you?

and this is something I've known, but I said it for the first time on the podcast, and it's a definitely started with just fear, fear that I can't provide for my family. And, As unhealthy as it may sound, fear is my biggest motivator still today. It is my biggest motivator. Fear of, messing up, fear of, maybe it's not my biggest motivator.

I think it's my strongest one though. in other words, it's not the thing that's constantly on my mind, but when fear of something really bad happening creeps up on me, then a lot of activity and follow very quickly. 

June Kato: Wow. I can definitely relate to that. Um, I'm trying to rewire my system right now because like, so, so I have a tendency to put things off because of fear and then a week before the deadline, then I like sprinvg into like, holy mother of God, all powerful, almighty action.

Anvd I just make things happen just like amazingly, just like I get so much shit done and it could be ADHD, but this is what happens. about, I'm trying to rewire my brain to not have to always put myself in a tough situation to get results done because I, I mean, in a way it's great because it's served me up until now to put myself into a pressure cooker and just see what diamonds I poop out, but I'm trying to, transition to a more, not fear based, more, of abundant I guess emotional well, mindset where I take action because it's something that I choose to, it's something that I want to do.

I don't always have to be, put myself in a situation of life and death to get things done. So yeah, that's the process. 

Ken Okazaki: Well, thanks for sharing that. Thank you. And I do want to get to that place. I think that most of the time, as far as what I do consciously, I am there. Thinking about what I want to do, but I've never seen myself move into action faster and get more results than when there's fear.

It's, maybe it's just a human condition and maybe it's not, I'm not an outlier. I don't know. Maybe I am. 

June Kato: I think it's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of both for sure. Um, but it's just like, what emotions are you addicted to? And I've tried to wean myself off of the survival emotion.

That's it. Because I feel like there's a bigger, a better way to do it. One that doesn't need as much adrenaline and cortisol. 

Ken Okazaki: Thank you for that. Well, we got to wrap this up soon. June, thank you so much for having this conversation. I think in the future, we're going to come up with some, some basic, uh, No topics.

And one of the, some of the things I want to cover in the future that June has very graciously agreed to work on, it's like interviewing you about things to do generally with life, with business, with marketing, with maybe even parenting. I don't know. I've had six of them after all. So, uh, but this is, this is the, a different theme.

And if you, in the future, if this is not your style, that's fine. Just skip it. But if it is your style, then please join us for the journey is not going to be direct tactical stuff. There might be some, but mostly it'll be more about discovering and exploring who I am, what drives me. And I think that there are valuable lessons.

I've learned that I'd be happy to share when, and if they didn't come up. 

June Kato: Yeah. I think the thing that if you've listened this far, that you're probably curious about when it comes to Ken is just like, Who is Ken? And he's more than his business. You're more than your business. You have, like, so much, so much just treasures, jewels, that, that lie hidden and undiscovered in all of your stories, and I'm just so interested in, like, pulling those out of you.

You know, I mean, partially selfishly, because a lot of it I haven't heard. And so I'm really just curious. I just want to get to know you. And I'm sure that if you have people who are listening to your podcast, they're here for the exact same reason. So this is, this is where that might happen. 

Ken Okazaki: All right.

We're going to wrap this up and we'll follow up and, uh, we don't have an exact date yet, but when we do, you will know. Thank you for listening this far and I'll see you next week.